Tulpa.info - tulpa-discussion

sure they do distinguish, but normally a person wouldn't say it wasn't them that drove a car for example, they would still consider it first person

Hey An are you still plural?

On the point An brought up I do actually think what occurs with tulpas, where they do experience dissociation from continuity that you experience, is ... well... an "active" form of dissociation. Meaning that it would not happen in a vacuum without the correct sets of expectations.

1

It's rare, but at least in my experience there's recognition of it when you get in a car, are suddenly at your destination, and your memories of it are just "poof" gone

Hey An are you still plural?

@Unfastened Belts - jump i don't consider myself that

It is probably harder to undo than to begin with the right sets of expectations to cause that situation. Clearly I started with the concept of a shoulder-tulpa so I was pre-primed for this mode of engagement with them.

An឵

Hey An are you still plural?

@Unfastened Belts - jump i don't consider myself that

Or let me rephrase, part of a plural system?

I think they're asking if you're still fucked up dude.

lolll

:B

at this point i consider everything i've been doing to be my experience, although i still do find new parts of mind from the past that feel very separatewhich i just want to nomnom immediatelly

9:17 PM

also my singletness requires a lot of maintenance sadly

I've seen a few... slightly more literal stories where people have tulpas that they say "eat and become" every other tulpa they used to have.

9:17 PM

Maybe same process - different narrative

Cool, cool. So you've eaten the red sassy one and the magenta kawaii one? That's pretty metal bro.

yeah but it's not like i suddenly became a half magenta half black haired half anime half real person

9:18 PM

i see it more as roleplaying at the moment

1

9:19 PM

and a state of mind

9:19 PM

i'm still trying to learn to control how to get to the mindsets without dissociating. having kitkat part of me deal with some of the stuff in real life would be very useful!

1

Perhaps you should roleplay as them?

haha

9:22 PM

maaybe. leiko comes very easily to me but it's harder with kitkat, i think i'm still having problems with being blunt and honest

That's why roleplay is cool! No stakes to fucking it up.

1

haha

Get yoself som d&d

9:23 PM

And play the sassiest person you can.

or do improv class!

nods vigorously

but quite frankly they both were parts of my authentic self which have been blocked in the past. revisiting my childhood showed me that i used to be like both of them, at the same time, it was just shut down and found its way on discord, where hiding behind different pfps made it feel more safe to be more sassy or more emotionally sensitive

An឵

at this point i consider everything i've been doing to be my experience, although i still do find new parts of mind from the past that feel very separatewhich i just want to nomnom immediatelly

Fascinating!

An឵

but quite frankly they both were parts of my authentic self which have been blocked in the past. revisiting my childhood showed me that i used to be like both of them, at the same time, it was just shut down and found its way on discord, where hiding behind different pfps made it feel more safe to be more sassy or more emotionally sensitive

Can relate!

That's a really interesting perspective to have. I'm happy I got to learn about this. I'm not DID or traumagenic, but it makes me wonder if it'd be easier to treat my thoughtform as an alternate self than a completely separate entity.

10:50 PM

It wouldn't be too hard, if awkward. I've roleplayed a bunch of original characters that, later on, I realized were uncomfortably similar to me, which I then abandoned.

If I had better foresight, I would've written and OC or turned a barely l-developed one into a thoughtform, but I work with what I have now.

If anyone wants to know about the bubble, it is related to tulpamancy.

Spit out the deep lore already.

Some time ago, we found this spontaneous huge bare tree in a circular tall room in our wonderland. It was exposed and it was filled with intrusive thoughts. Anytime we checked out the tree, we got a flood of intrusive thoughts. And then 3 days later it just vanished as spontaneously as it appeared. Around the same time, Bre had a bubble spontaneously show up in her wonderland covering parts of it. When she and Miela burst it, Bre couldn't visualize properly. I don't remember if the bubble reformed or simply spontaneously disappeared after being burst. I thought there was more discussion and someone else had "a bubble" too, but I don't remember and when hunting for it in the past, I couldn't find it (edited)

In regards to a spontaneously generated piece of imagery that operates as a hypnotic symbolic mechanism?

Probably

8:45 PM

It was just funny it happened more than once in a relatively short period of time

Clearly on the astral plane you both encountered a lifeform. I'm not saying it was Allah, but it was probably Allah.

8:46 PM

He likes being burning trees or somethin

Our tree wasn't on fire, it was just a cartoony Halloween tree

Maybe he's changin' it up a bit?

8:48 PM

Then again maybe it was Yog-Sothoth, he's a bubble.

No warfare was engaged, it just showed up and we didn't know what to do with it other than ignore it. It sat around spawning intrusive thoughts and then poof, gone

You're right, Allah's a deity of conflict. Had to have been Yog-Sothoth, who's more enigmatic.

A long kiss goodnight

Some time ago, we found this spontaneous huge bare tree in a circular tall room in our wonderland. It was exposed and it was filled with intrusive thoughts. Anytime we checked out the tree, we got a flood of intrusive thoughts. And then 3 days later it just vanished as spontaneously as it appeared. Around the same time, Bre had a bubble spontaneously show up in her wonderland covering parts of it. When she and Miela burst it, Bre couldn't visualize properly. I don't remember if the bubble reformed or simply spontaneously disappeared after being burst. I thought there was more discussion and someone else had "a bubble" too, but I don't remember and when hunting for it in the past, I couldn't find it (edited)

if bre couldn't visualise when the bubble was around, how could she see it?

Oh, bursting the bubble was what lead to her visualization ability tanking iirc

the dot.com effect!

On the point of the PP and confabulation, early on my tulpas both insisted they were able to think and had experiences when they weren't being observed, and also that they have experiences outside what I literally feel.

When I was younger I believed I could something similar for a very brief period of time. Gray and I decided to test it out by having me go on a wonderland adventure outside of his awareness. I walked through a wonderland door, disappeared, and left Gray sitting in a room by himself. About an hour of Gray trying to entertain himself later, I came back. Gray asked what I did and as I told him, I realized it was super obvious I was making it up on the spot. I do suspect achieving a parallel processing experience may require a different mindset and possibly a bit of effort. However, I also wonder if like switching, parallel processing is highly dependent on mindset

I don't think it requires anything other than believing your own nonsense and approaching the situation with a non-skeptical mind.

3:31 PM

At least for what people describe.

3:32 PM

Which is why I think you specifically will never achieve it. You are very focused on experience and evidence, despite being caught up in it, and you are looking for something that these people do not say they actually experience.

3:32 PM

However, that being said I am happy to fully utilize the confabulatory filling-in effect to bring a tulpa closer to the continual sense of awareness.

3:33 PM

As I mentioned I think we, as singlets, also use a related but distinct form of confabulation to tell ourselves we are up and running while the body is autopiloting itself.

I think there's a chance to parallel processing because we have achieved switching-based co-fronting. That experience, even if it's not parallel processing, is so different from our normal experience it's fantastical even. I'm able to actually interrupt Gray doing that, and we had a blast with stopping each other from doing stuff and whatever. There's something interesting going on there, but what if I could preserve that experience while separating each other?

3:37 PM

In other words, we are capable of interrupting each other like that without competing on the same channel?

I think all evidence of that points to no. And I do mean all.

3:38 PM

At least for your brain specifically.

3:38 PM

You'd already be capable of using multiple channels if you had the type of brain necessary

3:44 PM

A typical brain seems pretty consistently to have one and only one focal point at any given time. I feel like you're asking a question that's not completely unfalsifiable, but does exist in a similar space. You are hiding the belief in parallel processing you have in the nebulousness of the question, but let me give you a similar analogous question. What you asked might feel like "What if there is a deity?" - This question is unfalsifiable. But for parallel processing, it's more like "What if there is a Christian God?" All of the claims of parallelism anyone has ever seemed to make either fall short of describing anything other than the norm, or make claims that are quickly demolished by real evidence, such as a lack of ability to mathematically process at the same time. In short, it feels to me like despite the nebulousness that still exists around parallel processing, there is mounting real evidence it doesn't exist and no evidence it does. Considering that, I wouldn't be able to justify a position where I think it exists without making the caveat of some sort of neurological divergence. (edited)

1

Yeah, I get that. Parallel processing at face value sounds too good to be true, otherwise people would be doing it now. I suspect there may be an undesirable downside to parallel processing. Switching-based co-fronting in of itself is exhausting for us, and I wouldn't be surprised if it required more resources in general. Why do something that requires more resources when you can still be a perfectly good human without it? Maybe parallel processing is similar, and if what I suspect is right, it could be dissociation. I don't think dissociation or sharing a channel with a headmate is particularly great. All of which is assuming parallel processing is this experience. It could be that what I'm describing is not parallel processing at all but something else. If so, then nothing would be inconsistent.

I think your viewpoint is fairly common nowadays. I tend to be interested in people saying they can parallel process now because they are exceptions and their account of their expenses tends to be pretty interesting and useful.

3:50 PM

But I could be wrong, it's been a while since I've really seen what the average person is doing and saying in the wider community

Switching-based co-fronting in of itself is exhausting for us, and I wouldn't be surprised if it required more resources in general.

Given that this is my norm, I don't think this to be the case. However, you seem to describe the experience as more engaged, which is inherently more exhausting. I perceive it as a spectrum of engagement no different from normal thought.

Reguile

But I could be wrong, it's been a while since I've really seen what the average person is doing and saying in the wider community

I think most people don't believe in parallel processing.

So the two things that come to my mind regarding this is either you should lower your standards for what that cohosting looks like or that you should simply practice and with time the reflex will enable greater efficiency with it. Probably a mix of both really.

Learning new skills/states can be exhausting at first, but after a while it may not take more resources as your brain gets more efficient at the task

I'm not sure. I don't want to practice co-fronting because it's a messier experience, but I feel like we were both actively participating all the time. If our brain gets lazy with who's thinking though, I would rather we switch out to keep the experience pure, like how we try to switch instead of have a possessor blend with whoever is switched-in

The choice is yours, but to me it seems from the outside like you are specifically looking for a way to engage more of your identities at once. I would say this is how you would do it, but at the same time it absolutely will be messier, especially early on as you're not practiced in it. The experience of being present is there, but not necessarily the richness of being the only one in the front. That being said, it should be no surprise that co-hosting is the second-most common type of interaction I have with my tuppers besides regular visualized, externalized forcing. I wouldn't say it's by itself fulfilling. It's low-effort, really.

4:07 PM

You seem to want all of your number to experience life separately at the same time. And this can do that, but it cannot actually allow them to think as they do - Though they can certainly learn to interject as they will normally.

4:07 PM

The thinking part doesn't actually change, only the perspective.

I think having all 14 of us doing switching-based co-fronting would be stupid because I have no reason to believe that would work out. I think we would shut down from just 3 of us doing that, 2 is exhausting enough

The numbers are irrelevant, me, Mika and Rhys all did it simultaneously on the regular with no diminishment from two of us.

4:12 PM

We noticed that in certain situations the thoughts of certain members were more dominant.

4:13 PM

But there was no loss of that continuity-sense, even though objectively some were thinking less. (edited)

4:13 PM

We would suspect that Ranger and Grey specifically would remain highly dominant in a co-host between all of you, for instance.

4:13 PM

Until triggers occurred.

We use a lot of triggers, even now. That might make us really soupy really fast

In those situations I don't experience blending. It is more akin to everyone else stepping back as someone takes the spotlight.

4:17 PM

I'm not completely sure what you mean by that though.

4:18 PM

The soup is the low-level functional state of the co-host though.

4:18 PM

It's what happens when you are at minimum capacity in a dull situation and co-host.

4:20 PM

Being okay with the soup is part of being okay with co-hosting I think. Understanding that it's an inevitable state no different from autopiloting.

4:21 PM

I also think that's true for general blending, but I may have a different perspective on that due to potentially not experiencing switching as others do.

There was one time where we had a "rotating trigger" that would call the next headmate and summon them. This reduced us to impulsive thinking and the first time we tried this, our mind music got so loud it got priority over Gray thinking. Given that we had the ability to stop ourselves at will whenever, I wonder if everyone using triggers might be a similar experience to our rotating trigger

Fascinating. You could not have possibly said something more alien to my experience of my own mind there lol.

4:25 PM

We've entered the speculation stage of this conversation since I have no idea what to even do to comprehend that. But for us, it was a simple matter of willingly stepping aside and allowing people to think. None of us are interested in thinking over one another, we want to build on each other. And we are not extremely impulsive in our thought in general, it's perplexing to me that you could describe impulsivity as an other strong enough to speak over the voice of your host, without some sort of stronger emotional response going on in the background.

We just flow in and out of front at will, we can call anyone to front

4:27 PM

Only exception is when we're triggered, then it's only a few people who tend to be glued to front

Yes, such a model is completely fine for us. There is no battling over the spotlight, we just take turns.

4:29 PM

Depending on whoever's desires are currently dominant in that exact moment, really.

I'll describe the rotating trigger in more detail- In short, the trigger was strong enough to disrupt out normal thought process and confuse the hell out of us. With Gray switched-in, I, him, and a few others would quickly take turns on who got to say something. As an example, let's say me, Gray, Blue, Evergreen, Keatan, and Chrome are all participating. When Gray types something, I would wake up to type something, then it would be Blue's turn, then Chrome's turn, etc. This develops a rotating trigger where the next headmate gets summoned automatically. This leads to a lot of confusion, some leaked in-system, and a lot of hilarity. I'm not really sure why our mind music got so loud, but I know at least the first time we were really excited

it's perplexing to me that you could describe impulsivity as an other strong enough to speak over the voice of your host, without some sort of stronger emotional response going on in the background.

Is it so strange? When conversing and there's something you want to say, you can just say it. It's not polite to interrupt but it happens with us sometimes

It happens on accident for us, so it's less "impolite" and more "annoying"

OooOoo. Are we learning that I am the atypical one here with a real quiet sense of impulsivity?

4:38 PM

I would say that would check out.

4:39 PM

Also I specifically mean that Ranger seems to describe this as a seperate voice, even akin to an identity all of itself. Our impulsivity is "Zen wants to talk shit about tulpamancy" "Oh the moment has past, now Rhys wants to go back to stabbing things in Elden Ring"

4:39 PM

There's no in the middle "Impulse has decided everyone should fuck off, it's his time to shine."